Alex: Hello and welcome to this celebration of movie Excellence in 2024. I'm Alex Zane, and this is Countdown to the BAFTAs, where in this series we look back at five movies that were long listed along with the nominees for that most coveted award. Best film at the EE BAFTA Film Awards 2024.
This time it's All of Us Strangers.
Graham: The fun one on that was he, he did it in one take. I remember him calling up going, I've done it in one take. And, and always when you're a producer, you hear that. You're like, well, okay. He's going, no, no, no. It's extraordinary.
It's really worked really well, and you're going great.
In this wide ranging interview, we discuss how they got from the creative spark that started it all to the challenges faced in bringing it to the screen. And a quick warning, we will be talking about the story. So if you haven't yet, go see the movie, come back and get listening.
This is Countdown to the BAFTAs,
[START FILM CLIP]
Harry: You want a drink? It’s Japanese. It’s meant to be the best in the world but I couldn’t tell you why.
Adam: No thanks.
Harry: Okay, how bout I come in anyway? If not for a drink then for whatever else you might want.
[END CLIP]
Alex: One night in contemporary London, Adam played by Andrew Scott encounters a mysterious neighbour, Harry played by Paul Mescal.
[START CLIP]
Adam: I don’t think that’s a good idea.
Harry: Do I scare you?
Adam: No.
[END CLIP]
Alex: A romantic bond grows and Adam returns to his suburban childhood home to confront memories of his past, only to find his parents still appear to be living there exactly as they did before they died 30 years ago.
[START CLIP]
Dad: So where are you living now? Not round here I’m sure.
Adam: I’m in London.
Mum: Oh how fancy.
Dad: Whereabouts?
Mum: Do you live by yourself?
Adam: It’s just a flat.
Dad: What did I tell you? What did I tell you? I told you he’d be doing well for himself.
[END CLIP]
Sarah: Hi, I'm Sarah Harvey. I'm one of the producers of All of Us Strangers.
So we had always talked about trying to find a ghost story to develop and this, film is, is sort of loosely based on a Japanese ghost story by a very famous Japanese author called Taichi Yamada.
The book was called Strangers, and it was first translated into English language about 20 years ago. And so I kind of had read it then, and couldn't get near the option at the time, lots of people had been interested in it. And just sort of tracked it because it really stayed with me.
Um, and it's very different from the film that you've seen. It sort of veers into sort of horror towards the end, for example. So it's, it could have been much more of a genre film than All of Us Strangers is. But at its heart, it had a really interesting concept, which is kind of the same as in the movie, which is, um, you know, a 40-year-old guy goes back, um, to his old neighbourhood in Tokyo and he, he meets his essentially dead parents.
And I just thought that was an amazing and very emotional, um, sort of storyline to give somebody. We optioned the book and then we started looking for a filmmaker.
Graham: Hi, I am Graham Broadbent and as well as All of Us Strangers, which we're talking about today, I have produced films, uh, including The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel, and the Banshees of Inisherin
Alex: Sarah and Graham worked closely with writer and director Andrew Haigh
Graham: We're very filmmaker driven. It's always the point of view on the story that's gonna make it unique and extraordinary. And Andrew Haigh, we'd been talking to for a while, hadn't we? About.
Sarah: Yeah.
Graham: We bring people into the office and then, you know, try to make them like us and make them want to make a film with us. The unlikely, uh, process on this was, I think a meeting we'd had with Andrew, just a general meeting, what you sometimes call the door handle conversation. We might have been talking about things he was interested in.
And literally just as you're at the door handle about to go, he goes, well, I might be interested in a ghost story.
Sarah: Mm-Hmm.
Graham: And then, uh, Sarah mentioned this story. Uh, Andrew took the book away with him and it was a strange quiet then for a week or two of like, is this a mad idea or not? Um, and then Andrew called up and said, I, I think there's something in this. I could make something of.
Alex: Uh, having seen the film that, that's quite amazing because, uh, as anyone who has seen it will know, one of the crucial moments in the film is a door closing between two characters.
[Laughter]
Uh, uh, and in your reality, this actually happened.
Graham: Yeah.
Alex: Um, so did you then start talking about it in that moment or did you sort of go, we actually have a ghost story, let's get in touch again, or did the meeting like snowball from from there?
Sarah: Yeah. I think it snowballed from there.
I think Andrew just took his time to have a think about his reaction to, to the book. And then he came in, we'd had lots of conversations about where you could relocate this story. Um, it needed to be a big city. The book feels quite lonely. Um, uh, and it's about identity, but, but you could have, you could…
We talked about putting it in various locations, I think. And Andrew came in with a kind of very strong sense and vision of what he wanted to do with it. And he wanted to set it in London, which now it just feels like, you know, it should have always been set in London, you know.
And then he had his own very unique take on it, which makes it so personal. It's kind of almost incredible, it is, from a book because, and he's really put his heart and soul into it, which I think you can probably see.
Alex: Absolutely. Yeah. It feels, it feels like a very, very personal film.
Sarah: Yeah
Alex: And we're gonna touch on some of those personal aspects that he brought in, in a moment.
Just to ask as, as producers, obviously you're chatting with Andrew. It's this serendipity of having a ghost story, him being interested in making one.
At that early stage, do you still have to stand back and almost look at the prospect of making this film in quite an unsympathetic way and just analyse the potential risk involved in, in the huge undertaking that is making a film?
Sarah: I don’t. Graham probably does.
[Laughter]
Graham: I think at that early stage. At that early stage, you're looking at it going, is this a story that people might be able to relate to? Is it a story that might be able to be cast? Uh, is it a story that might travel? And so when you break down the constituent ingredients to it, there is a great conceptual idea at the centre of it.
What if you could go back and have a conversation with your parents, who had died 30 years ago? Uh, and then you look at your filmmaker and go, well, well, Andrew Haigh, uh, works with wonderful actors. He'd just done 45 years, uh, with Charlotte Rampling. We loved Weekend. We loved Looking, we loved all those things.
So you, you are looking at it, just going, this feels worth doing. It feels unusual, feels extraordinary. But it doesn't feel that it couldn't find an audience. I think if we felt it couldn't find an audience, if it didn't have any elements there, you that… I think as producers, you wouldn't necessarily pursue, but with this one you're going, is there a version of this which could be wonderful? And um, that's where we got to.
Sarah: Yeah. And we were all making the same film right from the start. I think. I think, you know, with the conversations with Andrew, we were making the version that Andrew wanted to make.
Alex: And his script, as he's writing…is he feeding back to you? Is it a, a collaborative process or is it much more like Andrew, you go write the script that you want to write and then you get to read that almost finished piece of work?
Sarah: I mean, he is really collaborative actually. But it's was his story and it was really important to give him the space to find what he was saying.
But he's a great collaborator, I think, and very sort of generous to listening to our notes.
Graham: We were still sort of trying to guide him in the process, wasn't it? Because I think sometimes the producer's job is to ask the questions. Uh, he, he set out what he wanted to do and we saw a draft after draft and he wrote it during, um, COVID in lockdown in LA.
So he was quite isolated, I think, in a sense. And I think he was definitely going down certain rabbit holes, uh, certain ideas. And occasionally a script would come in and, uh, we'd look at it and go, this is wonderful, but, what about that or what about that? And I do remember there was a, there was a point where we got a draft December 21, and I can see exactly where I was at home on sofa reading it because it, it, it was like a, a hot knife through butter.
You're just like, this just works completely, beginning, middle, and end. This works. And I, I remember finishing the script calling Sarah, uh, and then Ben, who works with us at Blueprint, just going, this is, this is the one, isn't it? This is great. We should make it.
[START CLIP]
Adam: I don't have a girlfriend because I'm not into girls. Into women.
Mum: What do you mean?
Adam: I mean, I’m gay.
Mum: As in homosexual?
Adam: Yes, as in – that, yeah.
Mum: Really?
Adam: Yeah.
Mum: Since when?
Adam: Since a long time.
Mum: How long?
Adam: Forever.
[END CLIP]
Alex: Let's talk about assembling. Um. This tremendous cast.
We've got Andrew Scott, Paul Mescal, Claire Foy, and Jamie Bell. And obviously the casting process from film to film can vary considerably. What was it like on this movie? Is it, is it a question of sending out a script to your wishlist of actors? Is it a question of you guys and Andrew sitting down with people that you're interested in being in it and feeling out, uh, whether they're right for the part, whether they're interested?
How did it go with All of Us Strangers?
Sarah: I mean, Andrew Scott was always everyone's absolute first choice. And Andrew Haigh was very, kind of clear that and that he, he wanted Andrew to play the role. And then it was about sort of, you know, once you have him, you then have to look at, you know, who could, who could play his mum and dad.
I don't wanna say it was an easy process, but we were very lucky with lots of people want to work with Andrew Haigh. Um, and so we did really get a dream cast.
Graham: We had Kahleen Crawford cast the film and worked with Andrew before, and it's interesting because you look at some films that have maybe 10, uh, significant roles or 20 significant roles and where a casting director sits in that process.
With this one, it was just four. It's only four people in the film. And uh, once we'd got Andrew Scott, it was what sits around there. And where Kahleen’s insight and her relationship with Andrew was so helpful was because if you've got any one of those wrong, there's only four roles. If you've got one wrong, you are way off on the rest of the film.
And I think Kahleen and Andrew's great success in this is to have got all four, uh, perfect. There was a fun point, wasn't there when we were casting? Because the concept of the film is that the parents are younger than, than our lead actor, Adam, uh, Andrew Scott, who, who plays Adam.
I remember Andrew Haigh once saying, I want it to look like a friend's poster. I want them all to be sort of the same. It should be like friends.
[Laughter]
And in a curious way, actually on the occasion where we've had all our actors together, it does look like that. They're, they're, I mean, they are amongst the best of British, uh, extraordinary talents, but they, they get on so well and they took themselves to such wonderful places.
It was, um, it's great to see and great to see on the poster,
Alex: Imagine if you'd gone to the marketing department. We need a fountain. We need some colourful umbrellas. Uh, this is, we see this as the poster.
[Laughter]
We only have a certain amount of time and it does seem wrong to pull out one member of this cast to talk about, but he is the lead, uh, as Adam.
So what, what qualities about Andrew Scott, um, do you feel made him perfect to take on this role?
Sarah: I mean, he's a brilliant actor. I think he can do anything actually. And I think the range of emotions he plays, and plays it in such a grounded way, you know, made him perfect for the role.
Graham: It's a sense of discovery, isn't there? So for, for cinema audiences worldwide, uh, Andrew Scott is not a known name.
And I'm just thinking instinctively as I talk about it, that I remember Judy Dench being discovered, uh, for Mrs. Brown and she carried a role, uh, all the way to the Oscars in the most extraordinary way. But her, a lot of her work had been in television, a lot of it had been in theatre.
I think that Andrew Scott. Everyone knows he's a great actor. The inspiration on this was to take him to a film and where he plays Adam with such nuance.
I mean, it's much talked about his performance, so we don't need to spend too much time on it now, but I think the, the, the ability to transition between being a 40 something year old man and a 12-year-old boy in his pyjamas, uh, which are 12 year old's pyjamas on a 45-year-old man.
[START CLIP]
Adam: It still smells the same in here.
Mum: You'd creep in here night after night saying you couldn't sleep. You're always scared of something. Murderers breaking in, or rabies or nuclear war.
[END CLIP]
Alex: It's almost a, a quite a trap for an actor to be asked to play a child because there are so many ways that could have gone wrong.
Sarah: Yeah. Just, when you were reading the script, thinking really?
Graham: Talking to Claire Foyer, to Jamie Bell, it thought, well, how do we play a ghost or a memory?
What are we gonna do? Are we gonna be helped with visual effects or are we just gonna play it? Play it as it is on the page. Where we think Andrew Haigh has, has created something so extraordinary is it's an audacious idea, uh, to, to to, to construct that scene of a grown man getting into bed with his younger parents and reminiscing on his childhood and what might have been.
And I think Andrew Haigh’s beauty in finding the voice of a 12-year-old who, who might have invented going to Disneyland age 13 or 14, invented the arguments he would've had with his parents who simply had died and left him behind. That sense of beauty in that, and isolation and poignancy and melancholy is wonderful. Uh, but the resolve, which Adam has as a character, as a, as a young gay man is his mom says, did, “did you get on alright at your next school?”
And he says, “I made sure I did.” And you could hear in that the, the granite resolve of, of closeted gay men going, I will not be found out. I will, I will get on with my journey.
[START CLIP]
Adam: You know when I was a teenager, even later, into my 20’s, I used to plot it all out.
Mum: What do you mean?
Adam: What we might’ve done together. In intricate detail. Trips to the Whitgift Centre. Birthdays. Trips to London.
[END CLIP]
Graham: The fun one on that was he, he did it in one take. I remember him calling up going, I've done it in one take. And, and always when you're a producer, you hear that. You're like, well, okay. He's going, no, no, no. It's extraordinary.
It's really worked really well, and you're going great. So then you have a look at the rushes and you're like. Yeah, he's right. The logistics of it are, are the enjoyment of it, because every time you watch it with Claire Foy and Andrew Scott and then Jamie Bell's in the bed, you are absolutely.
And Paul.
Graham: Well, yeah, Paul's gonna jump in. But the production logistics are Claire, Andrew Scott, Jamie Bell. Into the scene. Jamie Bell gets a tap on the shoulder to jump out
Sarah: And it’s a tiny bed, it’s a tiny little bed.
Graham: It’s a little BHS, 4’6 bed. Paul Mescal’s first day on set
Sarah: And the only day all four of them were together as well.
Graham: Now, all of this has to happen in one take and one cartridge of film because it's 400 feet of film, and it has to happen within that time period.
So Andrew Haigh pulled it off doing a, a one take on all that whilst the production brilliantly moved people around and the actors were perfect in their moment.
Sarah: When they stopped laughing.
[Laughter]
Graham: Yeah, the outtakes are good.
Alex: It's always lovely to have the curtain pulled back on, on an emotional scene like that. Yeah. Because as you say in the film, it's, it's, it's a wonderful scene and so powerful. And yet to hear Paul Mescal talking about having to swap out with Jamie Bell and being in Claire Foy’s eye line as she’s delivering the speech.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And it feels so truthful. The whole scene, you know, and it's not really sentimental. It, it's all very downplayed. I think it's so naturalistic, even though it's so absurd, as Graham says. Um, that's what's really extraordinary about it. But we should probably merchandise the pyjamas. Um, I really think we should be doing that.
Graham: They're great.
Sarah: I'm sorry, but…
Alex: This is, this is great. Uh, it's, it's a very different movie. Uh, we're merchandise the pyjamas and got
Graham: Got Friend's poster.
Sarah: Yeah. You know, Bridget Jones merchandised pyjamas.
Graham: Yeah.
Alex: And in terms of the shoot, I, I, I mean, a lot of people might be interested to know what, what your job as producers is. What is an average day once your film has begun shooting? Is there such a thing as an average day? What is your time mostly spent on while the film is actually shooting?
Graham: This one going in was there, there was some prep decisions to make, um, which were, where is this house going to be, that, that, that, uh, our characters are gonna live in, that our parents can live in.
And there is a story around that, that Andrew Haigh, uh, when we were talking to locations was like, well, it's, it's set in Sanderstead, near Croydon. And, uh, it's where I grew up. It's, it's gonna be like this. And we were like, well, why don't you go and scout and have a look around, which takes Andrew Haigh to his own childhood home, knocking on the door going.
Could we come and film here, which was extraordinary. So that was one production decision, a very brave creative decision for a production decision done.
Alex: And any, any, any fear on your part with that decision? I only ask because obviously it's, it's such a personal film that he's making. It's a personal script. And when your director who has written this personal script goes, I also want to shoot it in the home that I lived in, where a lot of the memories I've drawn from, not all of which are happy, have made it into this film.
Do you have to sort of just ask the question like, are you sure? Are you, are you sure this is the right decision?
Graham: It, it's interesting 'cause I think it's, again, that producing thing is it, is the question, isn't it? Good idea. It seems great. I mean, we are in, we are all in. It's a great idea.
Sarah: I think he had to think about that really for himself. And if he's offering that, he's already really thought about it. Andrew Haigh, but it was completely extraordinary and the house was pretty unchanged as well.
Um, we did knock a wall down, um, and Andrew Haigh says we, they got new electrics out of it as well.
[Laughter]
Um, but, but, um, it was really, you know, his bedroom, it's kind of, you know, weird almost. Um, how it was a sort of in a time capsule.
Alex: And is it strange for the cast as well? I mean, you know, because obviously the, the, the performing a personal, personal script and then they're told. And it happened in, in this house. A lot of it did. Did does he sit down with him and sort of go, it's fine.
I'm fine with this. By the way, we're, we're all making the same thing. I want to do this.
Graham: It's interesting the for, for Paul and Andrew and Claire and Jamie talking about that, uh, um, which we've all done since they were aware that Andrew Haigh’s vulnerability and openness in taking his cast and this film to that very personal space allowed them to be more vulnerable in their performance and their character.
And I, and I think there was a, an extraordinary generosity to each other, to both a director and actors in this process that allowed them to find something, a very vulnerable but safe space and to support each other in that. And it, it shows, uh, and the actors have talked about that, and I think that's produced something extraordinary there.
Alex: I've listened to the actors, um, talk about it myself, and it, it sounds like, um. Such a, a, an amazing atmosphere on, on a, on a film set. The, the comradery between this cast, um, it seems very unique to this film cause obviously that is not always the case on a film. I mean, can you talk us through the atmosphere on this set and potentially how unique that is to this specific production?
Sarah: I think everybody really cared. Our crew were amazing as well. You know, the production design. Um, our DP. Everybody really cared. And so I feel like it was like this little gem that was really made with love. Um, and it was a, it, it felt like a very intimate set, you know, it, it was a small cast.
So it all felt very personal and I think, sort of Andrew Haigh sort of fosters that kind of environment. So that's what I, I would say about it.
Graham: And everyone wanted to be there. It, it's not a checkbook film.
Sarah: No.
Graham: So everyone wanted to be there and, and every time we went to a cast, they'd straight away like, yeah, we're in because they could see there might be something great there. And they all got on. It was Friends. It was Friends on the poster. I love it.
Alex: I love it. It's, uh, it's not a checkbook film, but you do get new electrics at the end. At the end.
Obviously no film, uh, production is, is ever seamless. Uh, as producers, what was the biggest challenge that you encountered during the shooting of this film that you had to overcome? Or was it potentially the, the perfect shoot?
Sarah: The tower block was a bit of an issue.
We couldn't find a tower block, um, to sort of establish where he lived, even though London is full of, empty tower blocks. It was really hard to get permission. And so that was a bit tricky, wasn't it? Just in terms of…
Graham: Yeah, it was very down to wire cause tower blocks are owned by corporate entities largely located somewhere far, far away, and they have no interest in filmmaking. It just doesn’t matter what you talked about.
Sarah: Especially the subject you know's…
Graham: But the other, the other part of the, the very physical production side, uh, a great credit to our line producer Jeremy Campbell was so the apartment that, uh, Andrew Scott lives in was obviously in a studio, uh, but it is the 27th floor. And we were looking at how do you portray the world outside that apartment as a living environment? Because you might use green screen, but it doesn't live in quite the same way. It doesn't allow your actors to interact with that and part that, that exterior as well. So the dangers that might feel very, very internalized rather than isolate, internalized.
And um, Jeremy had been pursuing with Jamie Ramsey the idea of LED screens. Which are slightly unproven, I have to say, at, at this stage.
Alex: Okay.
And the way we wanted to do it, so the entire exterior of that, that apartment is 500 LED screens that are all joined up. What I remember production wise was we were shooting there on the Monday.
And we hadn't turned them on. Uh, Jamie, Ramsey's shot, brilliant plates for daytime, night time, uh, dusk, dawn, everything we would need. But we hadn't tried them out. And I think the Thursday or Friday before, we were like, well, it's either gonna work or we just have a giant, giant, giant problem. It did work brilliantly, which is great.
The funny thing on that is that Jamie Ramsey's plates are, so they're live footage shot from the 27th floor of an apartment block in Stratford. And often times as a producer on set, everyone's been busy and you are not needed at all really. So I kept finding myself watching little bits of footage. Uh, you could see it was so big, the screens, you could see into apartments, into worlds, into people on the pavement.
And I found myself feeling a little bit rear window. You'd look at it going, oh, I really hope no one's been murdered in, in there. No one else. Everyone else is oblivious at a proper job. But I would sit there going, oh wonder whats going on in there.
Sarah: So now you know what Graham was doing on set, when we were producing the movie.
Graham: I was a witness for peace. I was making sure nothing bad happened.
Sarah: He was in his own little world.
Alex: Uh, that certainly answers my question. Is there such a thing as a regular day on a film set. Apparently not, no.
Um, so this, this tower block, um, I, I'd love to ask you. Does it exist then? I, I'd love you to pull back the curtain. Is that the exterior shot of Adam's tower block home?
Is that, is that a model? Is that, uh, uh…
Graham: No, it's real. It is. It is
Alex: It is real.
Graham: It is real.
Sarah: Yeah.
Graham: But it took a lot of negotiation. And then with the FX, the, the, the big exterior from behind, we redid to, to, to duplicate our building. So we reclouded a building, VFX, but that does genuinely exist in Stratford with that, that great urban view of London.
Alex: Right with an ability to look into people's windows
[Laughter]
Sarah: Some people’s windows.
Graham: What was that show? Only Murders in the Building. That's what I was doing.
Alex: Music, uh, plays an important part of this film. Uh, it's very significant. Uh, some of the song choices, which we're gonna talk about at the end. And, and a quick note to our listeners that we are gonna be doing spoilers towards the end because we are going to talk about the end.
Um, were those songs, written into the script? And how challenging is that for you then, as producers to manage, to get every song that Andrew Haigh wants?
Sarah: They were mostly written into the script. Yes. Yeah. So he, and music, as you say, was a huge part of it and was even during the development phase, he kind of knew.
Uh, it, a lot of the records were things that he'd listened to as records when he was, when he was a kid. Um, I think Pet Shop Boys were absolutely key. Um, and
Alex: oh, that scene right, Claire Foy was…
Sarah: I know, I think that's another favourite scene of mine actually. Yeah.
Alex: It’s incredible. I think that was, yeah, I, I count myself as not the biggest cry, but that was when I started to feel myself go.
Graham: Yeah, but there's something cultural, isn't it, about the Pet Shop Boys and I was listening to Andrew Scott talk the other day. So for, for a lot of gay men and Andrew Haigh, Scott and myself.
There, there, there was a, you grew up with the Pet Shop Boys in the eighties and there was something beautiful and melancholic and inspiring and celebratory in what they were doing depending where you were in your sort of coming out process. And those Pet Shop Boys songs are very reminiscent of the late eighties, early nineties, and, and they're extraordinary, they, they work so well in the film, but Andrew has literally rehabilitated them back to a 2024 audience, which is nice.
We showed the Pet Shop Boys the film the other day, uh, Neil and Chris came in and it was a slight fandom moment. It was like they'd come to a preview theater in Soho and as producers, you know, you're largely like, yeah, on you go on you go. It's like, no, no, I'm coming.
[Laughter]
Graham: And Andrew Scott was away in LA and Andrew Haigh was way in LA. So don't worry, I'm going.
Um, but it was, it was great to see them and they were really, they were really proud of their music in the film, which is, which is great.
I think the other extraordinary unsung hero of the film is Emily, the composer, because the soundscape of the film, the emotional soundscape behind these very strong, actually great pop songs. It is to have a score that supports the character, supports the journey, supports the emotional journeys in a way that doesn't feel maudlin, doesn't feel unduly melancholic, and actually offers some, some optimism and hope and journey too.
And I think Emily just composed a wonderful, beautiful score. It's one of the, the other great successes as a producer when you're listening to the soundtrack, you know, months after the film's been released. Uh, and Emily's soundtrack is on Spotify. I listened to it the other day just going, I love this. I love this world.
I love this music. I find it utterly beautiful. I think she did something wonderful for us on the, on the soundtrack of the film.
Alex: Um, we, we, we touched on one of the biggest challenges finding the tower block. Is there a, is there something that you're most proud of being able to achieve in, in this production?
Sarah: For me it's that it seems to have completely worked for people, you know, it's a much more overall thing, and, and, and it, that's really about Andrew Haigh and our actors pulling it off. Um, that to me is the kind of joy.
Graham: There's a weird thing also. So during, during the edit, as, as producers, again, Andrew would ask us in probably every week or two, we'd have another look at a new cut, another look at a new cut.
And Jonathan Albert's a wonderful editor we were with. And oftentimes you slightly tire of the film, you keep seeing it. And, and after the 10th viewing or 12th, your brain is not as fresh or whatever. But I think every time we watch this, we always emo, came out emotionally, I think very complete. It's like this, this emotional experience is, is just extraordinary.
And, um, that's, that was something to, to really hold onto as the film kept fine tuning itself during the post process.
Sarah: Yeah, we, I think we knew from the first cut that we saw that it worked. Um, and it's largely the same film. It's, it's, it's been sort of shortened, but it is largely the same movie from the first cut that we saw.
Alex: How much longer was, was that first cut? Considerably longer. 'cause you often hear that the, the first cut of a film is, is much longer than what eventually gets released.
Sarah: Yeah. I can't remember exactly, but it, it, it would've been a fair bit longer.
Alex: And that's, that's done between yourselves and Andrew Haigh and your, your editor…
Sarah: Brilliant editor, yeah.
Alex: Yeah. Because you often hear, I mean, granted, this is, this is, this is much, uh, more prevalent with, with big studio movies where a film will go out to a test audience and test screenings and scores come back. That's not something that happened with All of Us Strangers or was it?
Graham: No, we, we did do that.
Sarah: A little bit.
Graham: I think it's… Andrew Haigh, uh, I didn't love the process. Uh, I think it's fair to say, but uh, I do think there's a point where you want to take the film from the cutting room to an audience, and feel it with an audience.
Testing, we work with lots of filmmakers and actually surprisingly, a lot of them like the test process, not for the numbers on the page because they are what they are and anyone can make what they want of those statistics. But I think the process of feeling in a room with an audience and just making sure that how you feel about, about those scenes or that length or the way that's cut, uh is a really useful part of the process.
Um, but I think as Sarah was saying on this one, the, the, we knew we had something good. So it was just like, as long as it takes to edit this to the most perfect version of what it should be, let's just keep going because it gets more beautiful every time we see it. So let's keep going.
Alex: And obviously the film is, um, having a theatrical release.
I guess what you're talking about is testament to the idea of film being viewed in a communal experience, still really being the best way to watch a film because you're feeding off
Sarah: Yeah. Absolutely.
Alex: The, the, the audience in the room?
Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's brilliant that it's got a theatrical release, and the audiences hopefully will find it and, you know, everyone that's seen it at festivals, sort of comes up to it. It really feels like it connects with an audience.
And people come up to us after the festivals we've been to and tell their stories of, you know, people they've lost or people they're in love with. And so it's, it's it, yeah, it's this sort of communal power of sitting in a room and watching something.
Graham: It's communal and cathartic. I remember in New York when we were at the New York Film Festival where they had a little balcony view where we could just see the end of the film. And it's very rare you see the screen and the audience from above and you could see the interaction between film and audience, particularly towards the, the quite emotional scenes of the film.
And you could see that it worked and there was something in that experience in the theatre that worked. And then Andrew Haigh was asked, what do you want people to feel at the end of this film? And. It is all about love.
Um, if we were to get to the ending, it's the power of love. It's all about love. And I remember Andrew Haigh saying, I, I would love people to leave this film and to go and hug someone, their friends, their lovers, their parents, whatever it is, just to go and to go and hug and love. And that seems to be the most positive note you can take from film.
But that communal experience for an audience almost gives the energy for people to be front footed out the theatre and find that love.
Alex: And that, that very first time to put, um, the idea of test screenings to one side.
But that very first time that, uh, you both were in the first screening of, uh, the film. And tell me about that moment of watching it for the first time with an audience and how you're feeling as the titles begin and the film starts. What's going through your heads as producers?
Graham: Well, it's a, it's, it's an ex it's a strange experience, isn't it? It's really, so we were at, um, Telluride, uh, which is where the film was launched, and we went into Telluride as an, uh, as one of a number of films that no one had ever heard of, which is actually one of the nice things about festival viewing sometimes the, the film's not pre-marketed.
It's just go and watch some things and see if they're interesting. And as you begin, you are vulnerable because I mean. You're all vulnerable because you really love it and you really want people to like it and to enjoy it. And then cut to the end of that screening in Telluride, where without, we had no sense of where we were on the map at all.
And then, uh, the reviews were embargoed, but came straight out and we were with the Searchlight people there and Andrew Haigh, and suddenly you go. Oh. turns out people really get it. It turns out they really love it. And, and you were, see, I think we saw 10 or 12 reviews literally straight out the gate and you're like, we knew it worked.
Sarah: Yeah, it's scary. It's like holding your breath basically. It's horrible.
[Laughter]
Alex: Horrible. And then wonderful.
Sarah: And then brilliant. And then a relief. And then you are just really, you know, proud and, but yeah, that's, that's how I would describe it.
Alex: Yeah, yeah. And you read those reviews and you're like, we need to manufacture a lot of pyjamas. Very quickly.
Sarah: That is the first thing I did.
Graham: The red buttons with the gray top.
Alex: I did say we were gonna talk spoilers and, and, and full disclosure, just before this interview started, I started going, so this is my interpretation of the ending. So I, I'm gonna give you my thinking, um, because I, I, it's, it's wonderful and I, I think the ambiguity of the end, people as you've said, can take whatever they want from the, the end.
And I've had a lot of conversations with people going, this is what I interpret it as.
Graham: Mm-Hmm.
Alex: So um, without wanting to sound, uh, too bleak cause I don't think it is a bleak ending, but my take is that at the end as um, Adam and Harry disappear into that, that wonderful shot, as they this, the star in the, the infinite heavens.
Um, is that Adam, as well as Harry is also dead at that moment?
Graham: Mm-Hmm.
Alex: Um, because having watched it, and I mentioned the songs have some significance. There are at least two, maybe three songs that mention the word fire.
Graham: Mm-Hmm.
Alex: Uh, as part of their lyrics, there is the fire alarm At the very start when Harry says one of these days that's gonna be real, there's Adam getting hotter and hotter throughout, there's the coughing on the tube, which would suggest smoke inhalation.
So my feeling in a, in a, in a nice way is, is his parents wanted to make their peace with Adam before they moved on. Adam is making his peace with them and, and moving on himself. He's dying over the course of the movie in an apartment that's a blaze and he's in this kind of purgatory. And then at the end he, he moves on but in a beautiful way cause he's found Harry and he'd rather be with Harry.
Graham: Yeah.
Alex: In the afterlife than carry on in this lonely existence in the real world. Thoughts.
[Laughter]
Graham: It sounds like you've done a PhD
Sarah: I know.
[Laughter]
Graham: I think one of the great, one of the great qualities of the film is the ambiguous and the grey. And we have sat with audiences, haven't we, where Andrew Haigh been talking to the audience and people have found a lot of different versions of what they feel the film might be.
Uh, conceptually is it really a ghost story? Is he really going to a house with ghosts? Is he writing that script that begins exterior suburban house 1987? Is it a sort of dream? It is a metaphysical memory journey. And what's great about it's, it can be any what, whatever you feel as an audience. The, the, the smart thing about the film and what Andrew Haigh’s created is the emotional journey.
So how you put your scaffolding or logistics or facts around that is, is up to you. And that's great, but I think that people's emotional experience of the film is, is one that can get you to a very beautiful, and I think we feel optimistic place at the end for Adam, but, um, but entirely personal. Just an aside on, it was funny when we were talking to financiers, uh, early on, we developed the film with Film 4 and then went to, to look for a studio partner. And we, we had a very, uh, engaged conversation with one studio. Who, who clearly loved it in every way. And then I remember one of the executives going, sorry, is, is Harry alive or dead? And I was like, whatever you want it to be.
Alex: I, I just want you to know that I wanted them both to live and run off together happily ever after.
But everybody said no. Um, that wasn't gonna be the end
Alex: Right.
Graham: But it is interesting because it on, on first viewing some people, I mean, people feel sad anyway and certainly emotional cause it is a beautiful love story. And there's a beautiful parental family story in there too.
And the parents get to say goodbye to the, the, there's so much going on there emotionally, I think. But I, I, I think that people can find their own way through it. Uh, and then oftentimes people, people watch it. The second time, I think they get where Andrew Haigh’s generosity is to his audience. Which is not the experience of a, to be blunt, an ashtray of misery.
It, it, there is something very beautiful in this film about love and as you said, the song at the end, the Power of Love. We, we debated at one stage there was a, a brilliant Thoreau quote, which we had on the film, then off the film, and we wondered if it threw people, but the quote was, there is no remedy for love, but to love more.
And to me, the minute you understand that, you can see exactly where Andrew Haigh has gone with this film, which is a generosity to love. And it takes you back to that experience that he talked about of when you leave the theatre, what are we remembering about each other and who are we gonna hug?
Alex: That's great. And that, and so to go back to my initial interpretation, what you're saying is. I'm right in my world. So to me…
[Laughter]
Sarah: In your world.
Alex: Which is often the case
Sarah: In your own world you are completely right.
[Laughter]
Alex: So when I’m walking around my flat on my own, I'm right. Yeah.
Sarah: You are.
Alex: Okay great. Um, I'm, I'm gonna, um, we're, we're almost out of time, but I, I've got, uh some big quick fire questions just to ask you, um, to, to wrap up, uh, our chat today.
Uh, so the first question is, um, can you remember your favourite day, either on the set of the film or in the edit of the film.
Sarah: Edit of the film. First time we saw it.
Graham: Yeah.
Edit the film. Um, at the end of it, lights come up. You've got your financiers there as well. Searchlight and Film 4. We are all feeling a little bit vulnerable and I think we just looked at each other just going, this is beautiful. Whatever it is, it's beautiful.
Alex: So was your first look to each other or to the financiers?
Graham: To us, Andrew and then to the financiers, but they were dribbling tears.
Sarah: Andrew is like right at the back.
Sarah: I think we were all right at the back, weren't we?
Graham: Yeah.
Alex: Uh, okay. And conversely, uh, though, was there, there a particularly hard day either on the set or in the edit?
Graham: I would say it's, it's actually just before, but it's pre-production. It's like getting this tower block. So this is a film entirely conceptually set in a tower block. And literally three weeks into the shoot, we've got permission to shoot a tower block, but it's withdrawn. So we don't have a tower block.
The entire film is set around a tower block and there isn't one, and you've only got three more weeks shooting to go. So exactly how is that gonna work out? And uh, that was, that was a, it's the four o'clock in the morning problem as a producer type. What the fuck are we gonna do?
Alex: Okay. Uh, what uh, would you say is the toughest part of a producer's job?
Sarah: I think it's just not giving up and there are times when you have real lows and you just think, oh my God, this is never gonna happen. Uh, so I think, uh, yeah, I think don't give up. Uh, but, but that's probably the biggest thing.
Alex: We'll end it there, but thank you so much.
Sarah: Thank you
Um, once again, congratulations on All of Us Strangers.
Graham: Thank you for watching it so carefully.
Sarah: Thank you. Yeah.
Graham: And for your PhD. Yeah.
Sarah: Yes.
Alex: Yeah.
My thanks to Graham Broadbent and Sarah Harvey, and of course to you for listening.
Follow the podcast to explore the rest of the nominees and much more in the months to come. Thanks too to the producers of this series, Matt Hill and Ollie Piet at Rethink Audio with Sound design by Peregrine Pez Andrews. I'm Alex Zane.
This was a BAFTA production. I'll see you again as the countdown to the EE BAFTA Film Awards 2024 continues.
